Atik Cameras Forum

Support (Please note, this is primarily a user forum, for direct Atik support, please email support@atik-cameras.com) => Atik Horizon => Topic started by: Phil HD925 on January 28, 2018, 09:59:15 PM

Title: Major Issues
Post by: Phil HD925 on January 28, 2018, 09:59:15 PM
Well, where to start :(  Having major issues with the Infinity software using the Horizon Colour.  Constant crashes and image quality issues last night.  E.g. I would start taking an exposure, progress bar would get about half way up and hang.  Then the software would become completely unresponsive and then crash.  Before imaging last night, I downloaded the latest Infinity core software version.  From the get go, I was having problems.  Back to my first night out in early January, I was getting a reddish hue in the background of the image while capturing the Horsehead nebula.  I thought maybe I had accidentally unchecked "auto color balance."  Not the case, considering I was having a very similar issue last night (see attached images).  Due to bad weather, last night was only my second time out with the Horizon.  I decided to uninstall, and go back to the previous version of Infinity--same issues.  Stacking became completely useless, since one bad image would ruin the entire stack.  I finally decided to swap out the Horizon and switch to my Infinity Colour camera.  The Infinity camera worked beautifully the rest of the night.  So, it has to be the camera (or compatibility issues with the Infinity software).  I'm using a modern laptop with a 7th generation i5, USB 3.0, Windows 10.  So, I have the hardware to run this camera.  The Horizon has great potential, I just hope this is something that can be fixed so I can enjoy it.  I was so frustrated after spending 45 minutes setting up last night, only for this to happen. Thanks

Here's my setup:  Edge HD 9.25 on Hyperstar, CGX mount.
Title: Re: Major Issues
Post by: Phil HD925 on January 28, 2018, 11:00:35 PM
Here's an image:
Title: Re: Major Issues
Post by: Phil HD925 on January 28, 2018, 11:03:24 PM
And another one:
Title: Re: Major Issues
Post by: dpaul on January 29, 2018, 12:07:56 AM
Hi Phi,

I have the Horizon mono (awaiting the colour Horizon delivery in next few weeks too).  Apart from a finicky USB connection which now seems resolved with using a different laptop port and removing a USB extension cable), the mono camera works fine.
I have the latest core downloaded 3 days ago and that seems ok.

My set up is direct hook up with a Windows 10 laptop (i7 processor). My scope is an F3.5 dobsonian on an equatorial platform and Baader coma corrector - no other things such as Hyperstar.

When viewing, I have both the Artemis and Infinity software running. I use the Infinity programme to do the semi-live viewing and set up the focus, etc. Also useful to see what kind of exposure I need to capture detail. Then I used the sequencer in Artemis to capture the sets of frames for doing subsequent processing in Pixinsight.

Hopefully I won't see the issues you have with the Horizon colour when I get mine. How long is your USB lead and is it USB 3.0 and plugged into a USB 3.0 port (some laptops have combine 2.0 and 3.0)? 

Where are based?

Regards

David

Title: Re: Major Issues
Post by: bwa on January 29, 2018, 06:45:35 AM
...
Back to my first night out in early January, I was getting a reddish hue in the background of the image while capturing the Horsehead nebula.  I thought maybe I had accidentally unchecked "auto color balance."  Not the case, considering I was having a very similar issue last night (see attached images). 
...
Here's my setup:  Edge HD 9.25 on Hyperstar, CGX mount.
I have both the mono and color Infinity cameras with a color Horizon on order, so can't help you much with crash problems.

However, the reddish hue in the region of the HH nebula is natural.  The whole area is packed full of emission nebulosity and the color Horizon is sensitive to everything from UV to short IR so you're going to see lots of the red end of the spectrum.

Clear skies!

bwa
Title: Re: Major Issues
Post by: Phil HD925 on January 29, 2018, 02:59:29 PM
...
Back to my first night out in early January, I was getting a reddish hue in the background of the image while capturing the Horsehead nebula.  I thought maybe I had accidentally unchecked "auto color balance."  Not the case, considering I was having a very similar issue last night (see attached images). 
...
Here's my setup:  Edge HD 9.25 on Hyperstar, CGX mount.
I have both the mono and color Infinity cameras with a color Horizon on order, so can't help you much with crash problems.

However, the reddish hue in the region of the HH nebula is natural.  The whole area is packed full of emission nebulosity and the color Horizon is sensitive to everything from UV to short IR so you're going to see lots of the red end of the spectrum.

Clear skies!

bwa

See my first image for reference.  That's the "red" hue I'm talking about.  Every exposure of the horesehead was fine, until I got to that one "reddish background" looking image.  That first image is also an image of the Pleiades, which shouldn't have that red in there at all--that object is in a very blue part of the spectrum.   

I'm also using the USB 3.0 port on my laptop (blue).  I tried both ports, same result with my images.   
Title: Re: Major Issues
Post by: Iria-Atik on January 30, 2018, 10:34:29 AM
Hi Phil,

Thank you for contacting our support team. I hope we can have this issue fixed very soon!

Clear skies,
Iria
Title: Re: Major Issues
Post by: Phil HD925 on January 31, 2018, 07:32:49 AM
Hi Phil,

Thank you for contacting our support team. I hope we can have this issue fixed very soon!

Clear skies,
Iria

Iria,

Thank you for the quick response.  I received an email this morning with a link to a newer version of Infinity.  I'll let you know if this fixes my problem. 

Thanks

Phil
Title: Re: Major Issues
Post by: Phil HD925 on February 09, 2018, 04:27:12 AM
Tried the new software I was sent last weekend.  I experienced a few crashes during my 3.5 hours of imaging.  I did still encounter the occasional odd looking frame (see photos above).  Definitely not as prevalent, but nothing near the trouble I was having the Horizon on my previous outing.  Using color binning (2X2), or above was definitely not working for me.  Half the screen would show a blank image (top), with data on the bottom.  Software became unstable as a result.  So, the kinks are still there.  I really wish I could do something about the vignetting issues I'm having--I've only tried the camera out with Hyperstar.  After watching the Lisbon live broadcast, there was mention of this problem with hyperstar setups--hopefully the software will get some kind of flat field corrections in a future release. 

Phil
Title: Re: Major Issues
Post by: jpops50 on February 18, 2018, 12:22:18 AM
I recently had some issues with another CMOS camera that sound similar to yours.  I traced the issue down to the USB cable.  The new CMOS cameras are using USB 3.0 cables which have a shorter communication distance than USB 2.0.  I overcame the issue by upgrading to an "Active USB 3.0" cable and a powered hub. Be sure you buy good quality cable for this application.  The following sight gives a good explanation of the issue and how to overcome the problem: https://www.diodes.com/design/support/technical-articles/pericoms-articles/active-superspeed-usb-and-hdmi-cables-are-longer-thinner-and-better/. 
Title: Re: Major Issues
Post by: dpaul on February 18, 2018, 07:19:07 PM
Great link regarding the quality of USB cables  (sorry you didn't give your name?).

I concur there are a lot of BAD USB 3.0 cables on the market, even from well know stores.  I've even had issues with a powered USB 3.0 hub which is very suspect in quality!


David
Title: Re: Major Issues
Post by: bwa on February 24, 2018, 01:32:41 AM
...
Using color binning (2X2), or above was definitely not working for me.  Half the screen would show a blank image (top), with data on the bottom.  Software became unstable as a result.  So, the kinks are still there. 
...
Phil
Yes, I've got the same problems with 2x2 binning.  Only about 2/3's of the screen displays with the rest either blank or full of artifacts.  4x4 binning appears to work.

However, if you see my latest post, 2x2 binning is the least of my worries with the Horizon.  I would simply like to get ONE good image off it!!

bwa
Title: Re: Major Issues
Post by: Phil HD925 on February 24, 2018, 05:11:31 AM
I recently had some issues with another CMOS camera that sound similar to yours.  I traced the issue down to the USB cable.  The new CMOS cameras are using USB 3.0 cables which have a shorter communication distance than USB 2.0.  I overcame the issue by upgrading to an "Active USB 3.0" cable and a powered hub. Be sure you buy good quality cable for this application.  The following sight gives a good explanation of the issue and how to overcome the problem: https://www.diodes.com/design/support/technical-articles/pericoms-articles/active-superspeed-usb-and-hdmi-cables-are-longer-thinner-and-better/.

USB cable appears to be working properly.  I think my problem may be linked to my power source.  I've been using a portable power bank to power the Horizon: 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B071D2N7TS/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Was getting unstable, so decided to just plug into the wall.  Made quite a difference.  Although, still experiencing issues while focusing with my bahtinov mask.  I typically use a .5 sec exposure (mean preset for auto-range, in Video mode).  I'll get good exposures of the star and x-pattern from the mask, then get a completely useless image--histogram is then all out of whack.  Makes it really hard to focus when this happens.  Switching to "full range" made no difference.  I swear, every other exposure last weekend was garbage.  Took me 10 minutes to finally get focused.  Never had this problem with my Infinity OSC camera.

Title: Re: Major Issues
Post by: Phil HD925 on February 24, 2018, 05:18:29 AM
...
Using color binning (2X2), or above was definitely not working for me.  Half the screen would show a blank image (top), with data on the bottom.  Software became unstable as a result.  So, the kinks are still there. 
...
Phil
Yes, I've got the same problems with 2x2 binning.  Only about 2/3's of the screen displays with the rest either blank or full of artifacts.  4x4 binning appears to work.

Yep, sounds familiar.  I did try out 2x2 binning last weekend.  For the most part, it seemed to work ok.  I only tried it a few times, since I was more focused that night on getting a long exposure of M81 and M82 at full resolution i.e. 1x1.  Very good results using 2 minute exposures (20 stacks total), nice round stars (no guiding).  I really wish I had these kinds of stars when imaging in the Southern and Western part of the sky.  Tracking just seems to get worse on my CGX. Very close to investing in an autoguider. 

However, if you see my latest post, 2x2 binning is the least of my worries with the Horizon.  I would simply like to get ONE good image off it!!

bwa
Title: Re: Major Issues
Post by: bwa on February 24, 2018, 07:08:40 AM
...
Although, still experiencing issues while focusing with my bahtinov mask.  I typically use a .5 sec exposure (mean preset for auto-range, in Video mode).  I'll get good exposures of the star and x-pattern from the mask, then get a completely useless image--histogram is then all out of whack.  Makes it really hard to focus when this happens.  Switching to "full range" made no difference.  I swear, every other exposure last weekend was garbage.  Took me 10 minutes to finally get focused.  Never had this problem with my Infinity OSC camera.
You're getting much the same thing as I am, although it does sound like you're getting at least a few images that are reasonable!?  All of my exposures, regardless of length, are garbage!  And I also have had good luck with both a color and mono Infinity as well as an ATIK 428Ex.

Hope to get this problem resolved fairly fast or my opinion of ATIK might change...

bwa

Title: Re: Major Issues
Post by: Phil HD925 on February 24, 2018, 08:06:41 AM

You're getting much the same thing as I am, although it does sound like you're getting at least a few images that are reasonable!?  All of my exposures, regardless of length, are garbage!  And I also have had good luck with both a color and mono Infinity as well as an ATIK 428Ex.

Hope to get this problem resolved fairly fast or my opinion of ATIK might change...

bwa
[/quote]

That's unfortunate.  What are you using to power the camera?  Making the switch from my power bank to the house did make a difference for me.  After finally getting in focus, the camera performed flawlessly at 1x1 (much like my Infinity).  I think the exposures of less than a second might have contributed to the garbage captures.  I might try focusing in finder mode at 1x1 color next time.  Not sure if that will make a difference, but worth a shot.  Too darned cold tonight to get out, and tomorrow will most likely cloud over after sundown.  So, hopefully, I can test again next weekend if mother nature cooperates. 

On a side note, i had to change a setting for USB on my laptop.  'USB selective suspend:  to disabled'  I do know this made a difference in the polemaster capture software.  I would get random freezes in the video while going through the polar align process.  Disabling, solved the problem (at least when not plugged into a power source).  Of course, having the laptop plugged in, won't cause issues if suspend is enabled.  Not sure if this would affect the Horizon camera too, but worth a try.
Title: Re: Major Issues
Post by: bwa on February 25, 2018, 09:17:38 AM

That's unfortunate.  What are you using to power the camera?  Making the switch from my power bank to the house did make a difference for me. ...

On a side note, i had to change a setting for USB on my laptop.  'USB selective suspend:  to disabled'  I do know this made a difference in the polemaster capture software.  I would get random freezes in the video while going through the polar align process.  Disabling, solved the problem (at least when not plugged into a power source).  Of course, having the laptop plugged in, won't cause issues if suspend is enabled.  Not sure if this would affect the Horizon camera too, but worth a try.
I've tried three different 110 volt ->12 volt power adapters; a 2 amp, 2.5 amp and 5.0 amp.  All work equally well and didn't resolve the problems.

I check on USB settings...

bwa
Title: Re: Major Issues
Post by: Phil HD925 on February 25, 2018, 06:47:35 PM

That's unfortunate.  What are you using to power the camera?  Making the switch from my power bank to the house did make a difference for me. ...

On a side note, i had to change a setting for USB on my laptop.  'USB selective suspend:  to disabled'  I do know this made a difference in the polemaster capture software.  I would get random freezes in the video while going through the polar align process.  Disabling, solved the problem (at least when not plugged into a power source).  Of course, having the laptop plugged in, won't cause issues if suspend is enabled.  Not sure if this would affect the Horizon camera too, but worth a try.


I've tried three different 110 volt ->12 volt power adapters; a 2 amp, 2.5 amp and 5.0 amp.  All work equally well and didn't resolve the problems.

I check on USB settings...

bwa

Tried out the Celestron Power Bank (did a dry run inside the house last night).  Seems to work fine without cooling.  The second I turn on cooling though, you can definitely hear a difference in the speed of the cooling fan (gets slower).  Although, it did manage to cool -40C below ambient, I fear the lower fan speed could cause a problem for heat disipation.  I didn't experience any Infinity crashes, which was surprising.  The only time I was able to get it to crash, was with 4X4 color binning.  Crashes every single time.  I found your thread, sounds like you have been having a lot of trouble with this camera.  I've had some good nights with it, and some bad.  I've had more good images than bad, so there's that.  Hope you get yours resolved soon, because the image quality of this camera is fantastic.  I went through a lot of my old Infinity images yesterday, can't believe how much noise they have.  I think the Feb. 15th software update helped with a lot of my issues.  Has Atik support responded to your ticket yet? 
Title: Re: Major Issues
Post by: bwa on February 26, 2018, 01:29:32 AM
I've tried three different 110 volt ->12 volt power adapters; a 2 amp, 2.5 amp and 5.0 amp.  All work equally well and didn't resolve the problems.

I check on USB settings...

bwa

Tried out the Celestron Power Bank (did a dry run inside the house last night).  Seems to work fine without cooling.  The second I turn on cooling though, you can definitely hear a difference in the speed of the cooling fan (gets slower).  Although, it did manage to cool -40C below ambient, I fear the lower fan speed could cause a problem for heat disipation.  I didn't experience any Infinity crashes, which was surprising.  The only time I was able to get it to crash, was with 4X4 color binning.  Crashes every single time.  I found your thread, sounds like you have been having a lot of trouble with this camera.  I've had some good nights with it, and some bad.  I've had more good images than bad, so there's that.  Hope you get yours resolved soon, because the image quality of this camera is fantastic.  I went through a lot of my old Infinity images yesterday, can't believe how much noise they have.  I think the Feb. 15th software update helped with a lot of my issues.  Has Atik support responded to your ticket yet?
I had a response from my dealer yesterday.  He will also chase ATIK for a resolution to problems.  ATIK support hasn't responded yet; however, it has been the weekend.  They have been good to me in the past.

bwa
Title: Re: Major Issues
Post by: Iria-Atik on March 06, 2018, 03:24:09 PM
Hi Bwa,

Sorry once again for this inconvenience. We're looking forward to receiving your camera and reproduce the problem here to fix the issue.

Thanks a lot for your patience!
Iria
Title: Re: Major Issues
Post by: bwa on March 26, 2018, 02:36:26 AM
Problem resolved.  ATIK replaced the camera and the new one works perfectly!

bwa
Title: Re: Major Issues
Post by: Phil HD925 on May 13, 2018, 09:55:24 PM
Problem resolved.  ATIK replaced the camera and the new one works perfectly!

bwa

Nice!  I'm also happy to report the issues with my Horizon OSC have been solved.  I'm 99.99 percent sure my "garbage frames" issue was the result of a lack of power.  I use a power bank that has AC and DC power outputs.  I was always using the AC option, since I have the Atik 12V DC to AC adapter.  This combination always worked fine on "house" power, but always gave me trouble when using the AC outlets on the power bank.  One night, I decided to bypass this entirely and use the 12V DC out on the power bank instead.  I had a spare 12v DC cable (male-male) that I borrowed from my Celestron Power tank lithium.  And....boy, did that make a difference.  Garbage frames are now a thing of the past, and my power bank lasts way way longer. I've used this setup for the past 3 outings with zero problems.  Just as reliable and enjoyable to use as my Infinity OSC.  I'm a very happy camper!  Now, just hoping for Infinity enhancements that will tackle the "vignetting" problem for folks like me who use Hyperstar.   

For those wondering, here is the power bank I'm using (I have two now, one for my laptop, phone, and 2nd monitor.).  The other one I use just for the Horizon.  I don't think it's possible to use both AC and DC simultaneously on one. 

NEXGADGET 42000mAh Laptop Power Bank (found on amazon). 
Title: Re: Major Issues
Post by: retret66 on July 10, 2018, 04:53:54 PM
I have the same problem, see my new post. Similar to what you have where hard lines and hard color coming in, but mine is more weird than yours, it started sending images that I took from previous week. I wish I never bought this product.
Title: Re: Major Issues
Post by: bwa on August 06, 2018, 06:17:44 AM
I've also had too many problems with the color Horizon and no real response from ATIK support; sadly.

I was going to buy a mono Horizon but decided on a mono QHY 163.  I've had good success with QHY, the price was right and their support has been very good...

I'm still hoping ATIK will get the remaining problems ironed out with the Horizon, since I do intend to keep the color Horizon.

bwa
Title: Re: Major Issues
Post by: Phil HD925 on August 15, 2018, 02:40:35 AM
I've also had too many problems with the color Horizon and no real response from ATIK support; sadly.

I was going to buy a mono Horizon but decided on a mono QHY 163.  I've had good success with QHY, the price was right and their support has been very good...

I'm still hoping ATIK will get the remaining problems ironed out with the Horizon, since I do intend to keep the color Horizon.

bwa

Sorry to hear you've been having issues.  A lot of the problems I experienced early on were not 100 percent the cameras fault.  Power is a big thing to consider, as well as your hardware.  Camera has worked beautifully since spring.  It really shines at a dark site, my vignetting problem (hyperstar issue) is greatly reduced away from the light pollution.  Here's an image of M31 from this weekend--taken from a dark site in the sierra nevada mountains.  There was a very light layer of smoke, but not enough to affect the image.  60 second exposures X 22 stacks, low gain setting, medium histogram setting, -18C, binning 1. Minor edits made in windows photo image software to bring out more detail. This is just a .jpeg file saved directly from the Infinity software. 
Title: Re: Major Issues
Post by: bwa on August 20, 2018, 04:40:06 AM
I too shot M31 a while back with the color Horizon.  Turned out reasonable after correcting for horizontal banding and a bit of amp glow.

bwa
Title: Re: Major Issues
Post by: Phil HD925 on August 23, 2018, 06:08:57 AM
I too shot M31 a while back with the color Horizon.  Turned out reasonable after correcting for horizontal banding and a bit of amp glow.

bwa

Wow!  That is some really nice detail in the core.  M31 is always bloated in the center, same with m42 for me.  I've always attributed this to the Infinity software stacking.  Did you stack in Infinity, or is this just core imaging with post processing/stacking? 
Title: Re: Major Issues
Post by: dpaul on August 26, 2018, 11:57:21 PM
Phil

Great result on M31 - what is the scope?
If you save FITS files with the Artemis software and processed the data is Pixinsight you would have an amazing result!

David
Title: Re: Major Issues
Post by: Phil HD925 on August 27, 2018, 01:55:28 PM
Phil

Great result on M31 - what is the scope?
If you save FITS files with the Artemis software and processed the data is Pixinsight you would have an amazing result!

David

9.25" edge HD on hyperstar.  Yes, since I don't have either pixinsight or photoshop (yet), I've been saving as jpeg files directly from Infinity.  I just do some minor edits in windows photo viewer...yes crude, but somewhat effective at bringing out more detail. 
Title: Re: Major Issues
Post by: bwa on August 27, 2018, 11:51:15 PM
...
Did you stack in Infinity, or is this just core imaging with post processing/stacking?
I've found there isn't really much difference between a live stacked image and one produced from subs.  It is simply being sure not to overexpose.

bwa
Title: Re: Major Issues
Post by: bwa on August 27, 2018, 11:56:53 PM
9.25" edge HD on hyperstar.  Yes, since I don't have either pixinsight or photoshop (yet), I've been saving as jpeg files directly from Infinity.  I just do some minor edits in windows photo viewer...yes crude, but somewhat effective at bringing out more detail.
Save and process in at least 16bit format out of the Infinity software.  You'll see a difference with 16bit files.  They give you much more data to play with and enhance.

I save in 16bit format and process in 32bit format until the very last step, i.e.: saving a JPG (8bit) file for uploading.

bwa
Title: Re: Major Issues
Post by: setkiki on March 04, 2019, 03:54:38 AM
About the purchase of cables
https://www.allicdata.com/products.html?category_id=1429 (https://www.allicdata.com/products.html?category_id=1429)