Atik Cameras Forum
Support (Please note, this is primarily a user forum, for direct Atik support, please email support@atik-cameras.com) => Atik Infinity => Topic started by: scopesnc on March 28, 2016, 12:01:13 am
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Hello
It is not meant as harm to ask my question , but I have to ask it. How good is ,or does Atik have quality control for the Infinity camera? I have now seen and know of at least 4 cameras all new with issues . One was DOA on arrival. 2 had really bad hot pixels and one actually had lose screws inside the camera that rattled around. Now all of us are checking for this and worrying about the camera working or not. I have only seen 4 working ones and one of them is also in question with a possible issue. For the $1000 being spent I would think this is not a good thing.
This has me worried as mine is new in the Box waiting on my OTA to arrive. It is starting to seem as if there may not be any kind of Q C on these cameras coming out of Portugal. It's as if this may be a pot luck camera. I mean no offense to Atik , but first impressions are what they are at this time. I'll keep my fingers crossed for mine to work well now. They seem to be great when they work. Wonderful views are being shown.
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Hi Jim,
I really hope this is not the case and my new Atik Infinity should arrive this week. I have used over my 18 years of CCD imaging and observing various cameras from Starlightxpress, Sbig and Mallincam. All three companies had excellent service and quality control, so I am hoping that Atik will follow suit. I will see if the quality control is there and will post my opinion here. I am considering a cooled mono camera for Ha observing and some odd imaging. If the Atik Infinity has the same issues that I have heard from recent other buyers then the Atik 460 will be out for me and I will go back to Starlightxpress and buy the Trius-SX694.
Chris A
Astrogate
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Chris
I'm only speaking about the Infinity camera because that is the one camera I have followed and bought now. I can not say anything about other Atik cameras except for good words have been spoken each time someone does speak about them.
The Infinity is the only camera I have heard of having Q C issues from Atik. Maybe Mr Chambers will work on that part for us. I hope so. Word spreads fast in our little world and I want support for for a long time with updates in the software. I don't want to see it pulled from the market due to bad quality killing sales My fingers are crossed, it was just a bad run of cams, a one time thing. Then again I don't see any kind of QC tag signed in my box anywhere. Time will tell I guess.
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Hello Jim and Chris,
Good to see you both on the Atik forum, as you say its a small world.
Regarding the reliability of the Infinity. Its actually the least complex of our cameras and has the lowest rate of returns of any of our products. The person whose screw came loose in transit was able to replace it, we have subsequently changed our assembly methods in order to prevent a reoccurrence. The hot pixel issues were more related to the way software handles hot pixels when they is little movement of the object between frames. This has been significantly improved and we continue to improve the software with new features.
These issues need to be put into the context as we have sold a huge number of these cameras over the past few months. Indeed I believe they are still on back order as we fight to keep up with new orders.
Thank you for ordering the camera, I am sure you will enjoy using it.
Cheers
Steve
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Hi Steve,
Thank you very much for the response and I very much look forward to using my new Atik Infinity soon. I must say that I am very impressed with what I have been seeing lately by several users of this camera regarding near real-time observing. The software looks excellent and like anything new there will be improvements or added features as time goes by. Thank you for coming out with such a very useful software/camera that works very well!
Cheers,
Chris A
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I am very please with my Atik Infinity Mono. No issues and was up and viewing with it in 5 minutes. Got some great shot of Orion and after two years of trying with another camera, saw the Horsehead for the first time.
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Awesome to hear Mike and thank you!
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Steve
Thanks for the reply on this subject. It all sounds very good. Atik is on top of things I see, and that is great news . Looking forward to first light with mine this weekend I hope.
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I received my new Atik Infinity color camera today and I must say that the quality was top notch. There was nothing for me to complain about except for the cloud over the next several days :(
I will post my results on 1st light
Chris A
Astrogate
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I received my replacement Infinity yesterday, the first one was defective. I had lots of issues getting the software in Parallels on my Macs to recognize the camera. Parallels loaded everything but the software didn't load the camera. I finally was able to get it to work in Win 7 but not Win XP of Parallels. What I had to do was first load the software with the enclosed CD, restart Win 7 and then download the Beta 3 version. After doing that it was able to fully function. I had to use this procedure on my MacBook Pro and on my Mac Pro.
It might be nice if the software was Mac compatible.
By the way both Infinity cameras I received had a tremendous amount of dust on the glass window.
Don
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A few more comments and requests.
First off what is 'Nmr SD' and how to use it. Can't find reference to it in latest 1.3 manual?
It would be nice to have an exposure countdown.
Also Mac compatible Infinity software.
A switch to turn off the tags that pop up when manipulating the histogram and also possibly give alternate arrow key control or better histogram slider control.
And I second all the other suggestions I and others have previously made.
Don
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Hi Don,
I looked at my CCD glass with a good magnifier and there was a few dust spots that I immediately cleaned but not too bad. No loose screws, not even any finger prints (yes I know I am being silly) on the camera body. I only wished that Atik would include or offer a male t-thread to female c- thread low profile adapter ( 3 mm) like this one from Scope Stuff which would allow me to directly connect my male C - thread reducer or my Canon ESO to C - thread adapter to use my camera lenses. I did buy as you know the one from ZWO but it is not a low profile adapter at 6 mm and stick out further therefore increase the backfocus and I am more worried about reaching focus with the lenses.
http://www.scopestuff.com/ss_t2ca_L.jpg
BTW - I read that you can use the left mouse button and click on the histogram where you want to move the black point and you can use the right mouse button and click on the histogram where you want to move the white point.
Cheers,
Chris
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There was some other things I wanted to comment on and one is the camera orientation. I find it strange that the camera has to be oriented vertically to conform to the normal directional movement of the mount. I would think that a horizontal orientation would be better so as to aide in clearing the mount base on Alt/Az fork mounted scopes so that one can use the proper directional orientation HC keys.
And one more observation, I notice that it takes less exposure time for the same object with the Infinity than with the 414EX, with the same scope and FR settings. Is that because the Infinity software increases or varies the gain or runs at a higher gain setting?
Don
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Chris
I looked mine over and can not find any dust , but first light will tell all. Mine did not come with a dust cap over the barrel and I did not know it was supposed to come with one till Don told me. I found that kind of strange that it didn't. He said it came with one of those rubber kind of black ones. I have a few sort of like that and used one. How mine did not get any dust on that glass is kind of lucky, but it is covered now. It was in a zip lock bag so that may have helped it not get any dust.
My hope is for first light this weekend , but bad weather may delay my OTA getting here in time. Stupid tornado's mess up lots of things including UPS shipping. My fingers are crossed. ;D
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Jim,
My Infinity did come with a black rubber end cap. My skies are clouded out for probably another week >:(
I hope you have clear skies this weekend and please let me know if your going on Google +.
Cheers,
Chris
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Hi Don,
Thanks for your list of comments. I'll try and answer them as best I can:
1) Mac Compatibility: It's good that you've managed to get it working in parallels. This is useful to know for anyone else who wants to do this. I haven't tried this myself, but will give it a go when I get a chance. Unfortunately, a mac compatible version of the infinity software isn't currently on the list. However, I am working hard on getting the main Artemis DLL into a cross platform state and once that is finished, we can think about other things. One thought on the XP situation though: There have been a few problems with infinity running on the normal XP version of windows. I have managed to fix these as they appear, but the latest version of the software is missing some of these fixes. I'll include these in the next installer. But if you want to test it out beforehand, give me an email on ChrisG@atik-cameras.com and I'll try to set you up.
2) Nmr SD: I've just checked the manual, and you're correct! It doesn't mention this option explicitly. The Mean SD option sets the black and white levels according to the mean, plus or minus the (standard deviation * NmrSD). The mean and SD are of the pixel values in the image.
3) Exposure Countdown: We experimented with a countdown in early version of infinity. (You can see it in early demo videos of the software). In the end, we decided that a green bar next to the play button was a nicer way of showing this info. However, I can see why a 'number of seconds' would be a good thing to see, particularly on longer exposures. I'll add it to the list of suggestions and see what we can do for a future version.
4) Switch off histogram tags: This should be easy to change. I'll add it to the list for the next version.
5) Better Histogram Control: This is something I'm always thinking about. It is difficult to get it right though. The problem is the number of things you need to adjust: There are the three levels (Black, White, Gray) and then there is the amount you wish to adjust by. It's difficult to make this intuitive. I'll review the situation again before the next release though.
6) Comparison to 414EX: The gain levels should be set very similarly for these cameras and so there shouldn't be much difference. What would you say is the length of time between the two?
I hope that's answered all your questions. Feel free to post again if you have any more.
Chris.
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My Atik Mono did not have any dust on it when it arrived. Don, there is an exposure countdown of sorts. It is a bar graph in the upper left hand corner of the software screen. It shows you how long you have left on each exposure.
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Hi Don,
Thanks for your list of comments. I'll try and answer them as best I can:
1) Mac Compatibility: It's good that you've managed to get it working in parallels. This is useful to know for anyone else who wants to do this. I haven't tried this myself, but will give it a go when I get a chance. Unfortunately, a mac compatible version of the infinity software isn't currently on the list. However, I am working hard on getting the main Artemis DLL into a cross platform state and once that is finished, we can think about other things. One thought on the XP situation though: There have been a few problems with infinity running on the normal XP version of windows. I have managed to fix these as they appear, but the latest version of the software is missing some of these fixes. I'll include these in the next installer. But if you want to test it out beforehand, give me an email on ChrisG@atik-cameras.com and I'll try to set you up.
2) Nmr SD: I've just checked the manual, and you're correct! It doesn't mention this option explicitly. The Mean SD option sets the black and white levels according to the mean, plus or minus the (standard deviation * NmrSD). The mean and SD are of the pixel values in the image.
3) Exposure Countdown: We experimented with a countdown in early version of infinity. (You can see it in early demo videos of the software). In the end, we decided that a green bar next to the play button was a nicer way of showing this info. However, I can see why a 'number of seconds' would be a good thing to see, particularly on longer exposures. I'll add it to the list of suggestions and see what we can do for a future version.
4) Switch off histogram tags: This should be easy to change. I'll add it to the list for the next version.
5) Better Histogram Control: This is something I'm always thinking about. It is difficult to get it right though. The problem is the number of things you need to adjust: There are the three levels (Black, White, Gray) and then there is the amount you wish to adjust by. It's difficult to make this intuitive. I'll review the situation again before the next release though.
6) Comparison to 414EX: The gain levels should be set very similarly for these cameras and so there shouldn't be much difference. What would you say is the length of time between the two?
I hope that's answered all your questions. Feel free to post again if you have any more.
Chris.
Hi Chris
There were a few other very important suggest brought up that you missed or may have talked about in the past
1. Can you please incorporate a crosshairs into the Infinity software for easier more accurate mount alignment when using the camera>
2. The colour seems a bit washed out and I know there is a separate RGB colour adjuster but this only adjusts one colour at a time. The auto colour balance feature is great but again colour seems washed out or weak therefore I would like to suggest a saturation colour slider if you can make it happen?
3. Since the stacking feature works so well and greatly improves the signal to noise ratio it does seem that the images could benefit from some sharpness applied therefore I would like to suggest some sort of smart sharpness filter again as a slider.
Thank you!
Chris Appleton
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Hi Chris
Thanks for adding those, I must have missed them when I was looking through.
Anyways:
1) Adding a cross-hair has been mentioned before and has been on the list for a while. I nearly added it to the most recent version, but ran out of time. It's likely that it'll be there for the next version.
2) Good suggestion. The difficulty here is how to add it to the software, without over complicating the layout. It's quite difficult to arrange all the colour options without have loads of sliders. For example, why stop at saturation, when we could also add hue and brightness? I'm trying to keep things as simple as possible, but unfortunately this results in loss of some functionality. At any rate, it would be good to see it in there, and it's definitely on the list. It's something I'll keep thinking about, if not for the next version.
3) Sharpness: This has been suggested before and it is a good idea, however, it is a more difficult thing to add in. The main problem here is how expensive (in terms of CPU) it is to perform this operation. One of my aims early on was to ensure that the processing time of the image was a short as possible. The current processing includes hot pixel removal and debayering (if colour), then we have to stack the image and calculate the FWHM, and final apply the pixel stretching and colour adjustments. All this takes place in a reasonably short space of time. I admit that I haven't actually looked very far into sharpness yet, but my initial impression was that it is quite an expensive task, and might significantly increase the calculation time, particularly if recalculated on a slider. It might be that when I sit down to do it, that this will prove unfounded and that it's a lot easier than feared. And at any rate, you can always have an on/off option for people who want to try it and don't care how long it takes. But it's not something that will be added to the next version, and is unlikely to be added in the short term.
Let me know if you have any more questions
Chris.
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Wow, Chris Golden, I am glad you are on top of things and are working to make it better. We all want more options, but I agree, keep it fast or don't do it. So far the software is great
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Hi Chris
Thanks for adding those, I must have missed them when I was looking through.
Anyways:
1) Adding a cross-hair has been mentioned before and has been on the list for a while. I nearly added it to the most recent version, but ran out of time. It's likely that it'll be there for the next version.
2) Good suggestion. The difficulty here is how to add it to the software, without over complicating the layout. It's quite difficult to arrange all the colour options without have loads of sliders. For example, why stop at saturation, when we could also add hue and brightness? I'm trying to keep things as simple as possible, but unfortunately this results in loss of some functionality. At any rate, it would be good to see it in there, and it's definitely on the list. It's something I'll keep thinking about, if not for the next version.
3) Sharpness: This has been suggested before and it is a good idea, however, it is a more difficult thing to add in. The main problem here is how expensive (in terms of CPU) it is to perform this operation. One of my aims early on was to ensure that the processing time of the image was a short as possible. The current processing includes hot pixel removal and debayering (if colour), then we have to stack the image and calculate the FWHM, and final apply the pixel stretching and colour adjustments. All this takes place in a reasonably short space of time. I admit that I haven't actually looked very far into sharpness yet, but my initial impression was that it is quite an expensive task, and might significantly increase the calculation time, particularly if recalculated on a slider. It might be that when I sit down to do it, that this will prove unfounded and that it's a lot easier than feared. And at any rate, you can always have an on/off option for people who want to try it and don't care how long it takes. But it's not something that will be added to the next version, and is unlikely to be added in the short term.
Let me know if you have any more questions
Chris.
Thank you Chris for the quick responses. After been observing and testing for many years I have also come to the conclusion regarding simplicity. This was one of the big reasons for me to go with an Atik Infinity and the software sure makes things very easy to do esp. when one is broadcasting and responding to the audience.
** I would keep it very simple by just adding a saturation slider which will allow control when adjusting a level/slider in order to increase the colour saturation. . We do not need to go with more features like hue since we can already manually change the colour balance if required & brightness since it can be manually adjusted using a histograms gamma and white point settings.
From what I have seen so far the images are a bit soft looking and I do not know why this is the case until I had a chance to test it out with my equipment. I think keeping it simple by adding a sharpness slider scale from 1 - 10 (no need to get advance using threshold or radius) to add a mild form of sharpness. Having an off/on option would be a great idea for those with slower computers!
Cheers,
Chris A
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I have had the Infinity for a few weeks now and have not had any issues with the camera. The physical build is excellent and the software performs as described. A great unit.